tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post114840512673458350..comments2022-11-23T04:22:32.498+01:00Comments on At Home in Europe [EN]: Hitchens has been (too) well served by the Dutch RightHuib Riethofhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14377762382669163829noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post-1149055260375293552006-05-31T08:01:00.000+02:002006-05-31T08:01:00.000+02:001) The majority of young men in prison for rape, t...1) The majority of young men in prison for rape, theft and abuse are muslims. [see CBS]<BR/><BR/>2)Incorrect.<BR/>There is such a thing as the muslim-community.<BR/>A muslim will always choose for another muslim first, whether they live in the South or the North of Holland.<BR/><BR/>3) Bush will fail.<BR/>As long as muslims believe in the words of the Koran, democracy will fail as well.<BR/><BR/>4) Islam has NO respect for other religions.<BR/>The koran says:<BR/><BR/>(Koran 3:85) <BR/>If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, <BR/>never will it be accepted of him; and in the <BR/>Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have <BR/>lost all spiritual good. <BR/>----------<BR/><BR/><BR/> But we were talking about the Left-wing guilt of the loss of our Ayaan Hirsi Ali.<BR/><BR/>Here's someone else's complaint about the left-wing:<BR/><BR/><BR/> "When I came to the West in the beginning of the 1990s, I was faced by the fact that the majority of intellectuals, the mainstream media, the academic world, and many feminists, in the name of respecting other cultures and religions, were trying to justify Islam by dividing it into fundamentalist and moderate, progressive and reactionary, Medina's and Mecca's, folksy and non-folksy, poisonous and edible. For people like me, first-hand victims of the Islamic holocaust, it was suffocating to listen to and to have to refute endless tales to justify this terror, atrocity and misogyny. Parallel to this Islamic carnage, apologists for Islam try to divert people's righteous loathing for Islam and for the political Islamic movement, to limit it to a hatred of 'fundamentalism'. They attempt to reduce the anti-Islamic struggle to anti-fundamentalism. They keep telling us that what we loathe is fundamentalism, not the 'true', the 'real' Islam. They pledge 'reform in Islam' and the application of a 'positive interpretation of the Koran' to women's rights by 'linguistic turn'. They raise the idea of Islamic feminism and try to attach a human face to the monstrous face of Islam against women.<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>The truth should be spoken. We shouldn't let apologists for Islam play with people's lives any more. We should say clearly and loudly that it is all about Islam. What we have seen is the reality of Islam in power. The fact is that Western liberal and left-wing intellectuals feel guilty about past colonial history and are apologetic to the 'Third World'. They consider the 'Third World' a given entity, where people are keen to suffer under the rotten rules of Islam, where people are happy to be deprived of the achievements of human civilization in the 21st century. According to them, women desire sexual apartheid, girls love to be segregated from boys, and people hate civil rights and individual freedom. In their view, people are the allies of Islamic movements and Islamic governments. This is indeed a distorted image of the realities. This is an inverted colonialism. In this picture, people who are fighting for civil rights, secularism and against political Islam do not exist. This self- centred mentality in which everything should revolve around the guilt of Western pseudo-intellectuals is appalling. The rights of freedom of expression, equality of men and women, and a secular state apply to people in the 'Third World' too. Isn't it shameful that we have to argue about it?"<BR/><BR/>http://www.iheu.org/node/1121Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post-1148860127839965632006-05-29T01:48:00.000+02:002006-05-29T01:48:00.000+02:00Thank you, GJK, we are in a real conversation now....Thank you, GJK, we are in a real conversation now. But I regret to say, that I cannot admit being "wrong" about muslims. <BR/>I too worked in Holland since 1975 with muslims, as a volunteer and professionally. In 1979 I reorganised the Amsterdam Foundation for foreign employees, which still exists as "ASC", having found out from field experience, that "cuddling" of so-called representatives was a plague. From 1982 on, I was a project leader at the ministry of the Interior at the Coordination of Minorities Directorate. I introduced and implemented the neighbourhood-oriented city policies there. <BR/>Essentially, that was an effort to replace the existing ethnicity-oriented policies with an approach that made it possible for local authorities and local projct managers to tackle the really existing problems for *all* inhabitants. Pim Fortuyn, in his "Puinhopen van Paars"-book (2002) has an entire chapter about this neighbourhood-oriented approach and its advantages for an effective integration policy.<BR/>Later on, I was assistant project-leader of the Dutch government project "Employment for Minorities" (1988-1992).<BR/>And I have quite different experiences with muslims than you have had. <BR/>1. The law. In day-to-day life, I have seen no difference between muslims and non-muslims regarding respect for the law. Disrespect for law and official rules has more to do with the economic and social situation of people, than with the prescriptions of some fanatic fundamentalists, if they are Calvinist or Muslim. When the law and the rules are manipulated in order to make life more difficult for immigrants, like the Rotterdam Code or Verdonk's abiding by non-existing rules on nationality, you may expect, that people (muslims and non-muslims) will be looking for justifications to disobey.<BR/>2. *The* Muslim community does not exist. A vast majority of Muslims are law-abiding people.<BR/>3. Islam is NOT incompatible with democracy. You know better than Bush? Last week, Bush repeated for American television, that democracy is his goal in Iraq. He works for that objective with shiite muslims, people who are deeply religious, making -in my view, and you will agree- too many concessions to their actions to install the sharia for "family matters", making an exception to the rule of law.<BR/>4. Freedom of religion and of non-religion. Yes, I still believe that a democratic state should respect that freedom. And the different religions should repect each other, as well as the agnostics.<BR/>2.Huib Riethofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377762382669163829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post-1148852295739331772006-05-28T23:38:00.000+02:002006-05-28T23:38:00.000+02:00You DO have guts.I'll grant you that.Thanks for po...You DO have guts.<BR/>I'll grant you that.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for posting my reaction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post-1148831164458843802006-05-28T17:46:00.000+02:002006-05-28T17:46:00.000+02:00You wrote: "For real citizenship is not about prot...You wrote: "For real citizenship is not about protecting your own prejudices, but to tolerate those of others, as long as they are within the limits of the law."<BR/><BR/>Correct.<BR/><BR/>That's what I've been doing for the last 30 to 40 years.<BR/>And not just 'tolerate' either.<BR/>I've been working [as a volunteer] for - and with - muslims since they started to arrive in the Netherlands.<BR/><BR/>You KNOW that islam teaches it's followers not to accept any law, but their own: The shari'a.<BR/><BR/>You KNOW that our laws are being broken on a daily basis by the muslim-community.<BR/><BR/>You KNOW islam is completely incompatible with democracy.<BR/><BR/>You KNOW all that and you still maintain a liberal democracy should leave her citizens alone in their religion?<BR/><BR/>Will you get your head out of the sand and, for once, admit that you're wrong?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post-1148820585934958602006-05-28T14:49:00.000+02:002006-05-28T14:49:00.000+02:00I accepted this second comment of Mr. Klaver, just...I accepted this second comment of Mr. Klaver, just to show you the intellectual and emotional level of most debates on the Islam issue in Holland. <BR/>Hirsi Ali, since 2002, has much contributed to this hysterical climate. Otiginally a moderate Muslim, she indulged more and more in a depiction of a "great conspiracy" of all Muslims against the rest of the world. Maybe, she believes in it, herself. If that is true, I can excuse her for that. <BR/>But that people like Mr. GJK cannot see, that a liberal democracy should leave her citizens alone in their religion, at the same time as maintaining the law against abuses and against practices inconsistent with the Constitution, is a very bad omen. This concept of democracy and law, I am happy to share, not only with most of the Left, but also with most of the political Right.<BR/>So, if Mr. Klaver accuses me of protecting the right of Muslims to be Muslim in Holland, in spite of the fact that I am no fan of any religion, I am proud with that distinction. For real citizenship is not about protecting your own prejudices, but to tolerate those of others, as long as they are within the limits of the law. I will defend Mr. Klaver's right to his opinions, too, as long as he doesn't call for a pogrom on muslims or on the left. :-) I will even continue to discuss with him, if he stops shouting and complaining, and starts reading what I write.Huib Riethofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377762382669163829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post-1148807343035669692006-05-28T11:09:00.000+02:002006-05-28T11:09:00.000+02:00"Presumably VVD voters"?Have you got a source for ..."Presumably VVD voters"?<BR/><BR/>Have you got a source for that?<BR/><BR/>Anyway: The LEFT started this whole thing by airing the 'documentary'.<BR/>Btw: The makers paid the relatives of AHA to tell their lies.<BR/><BR/>The 'left' knew Rita Verdonk would react the way she did, thereby the 'left' got rid of two opponents: AHA & Verdonk.<BR/><BR/>[at least: that was the plan. Sadly enough for the 'left' the Dutch people saw through the whole plan and now the 'left' is losing in the polls]<BR/><BR/>The LEFT have done nothing but critizing AHA.<BR/>The LEFT is the champion of appeasement to a religion that allows our homo-sexuals and jews to be beaten up.<BR/><BR/>You really ought to be ashamed of yourself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post-1148774364577873722006-05-28T01:59:00.000+02:002006-05-28T01:59:00.000+02:00Thank you! Next time, please read, before you star...Thank you! Next time, please read, before you start writing. I said, that defending refugees who hide their identity, was no risk for H.A., for she had already told many times that she had done the same. It was Hitchens who brought that up. I explained that nonetheless, she never ever defended refugees who were deported for similar "lies".<BR/>Hirsi Ali risked indeed her life, and she needed protection. She still needs it. <BR/>The apartment-owners in her flat, presumably right-wing VVD-voters, are to be blamed for the scandalous treatment in Holland, that made her decide to leave the country. <BR/>This time, mr. Klaver, the 'bullet' came from the right.Huib Riethofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377762382669163829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post-1148762457951828032006-05-27T22:40:00.000+02:002006-05-27T22:40:00.000+02:00You lie.The 'documentary' - which started this w...You lie.<BR/><BR/>The 'documentary' - which started this whole thing - was aired by 'Zembla/VARA TV, which is notoriously 'left-wing'.<BR/><BR/>You wrote: "In standing up for people who did the same, there was no risk at all for her"<BR/><BR/>Are you insane?<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>In 2004 the group "The Hague Connection" produced and distributed the rap song "Hirsi Ali Dis" on the internet. The lyrics of this song included yet more violent threats against Hirsi Ali's life. The rappers were prosecuted under Article 121 of the Dutch criminal code, because they hindered the execution of Hirsi Ali's tasks as politician. In 2005 the rappers were sentenced to community service and a suspended prison sentence.<BR/><BR/>After the incident, Hirsi Ali went into hiding in the Netherlands, and even spent some time in New York, a situation which lasted until January 18, 2005, when she returned to parliament. On February 18, 2005, she revealed the location of herself and her colleague Geert Wilders, who had also been in hiding. She demanded a normal, secured house, which she was granted one week later.<BR/><BR/>On November 16, 2005, Hirsi Ali reported being seriously threatened by the Imam Scheich Fawaz. This Imam, who worked in a mosque in The Hague, announced on the internet that Hirsi Ali would be "blown away by the wind of changing times" and that she could anticipate "the curse of Allah".<BR/><BR/>On April 27 a Dutch judge ruled that Hirsi Ali had to leave her house - a highly secured secret address in the Netherlands. Her neighbors had complained that living next to her was an unacceptable security risk for them.<BR/><BR/>No risk at all, huh.<BR/><BR/>YOU and the overly PC people on the 'left' [how you can maintain being a lefty and support an orthodox religion like Islam is beyond me] YOU are the ones that betrayed Hirsi Ali.<BR/><BR/>I hope you sleep well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post-1148463752524305122006-05-24T11:42:00.000+02:002006-05-24T11:42:00.000+02:00OK. Your Hitchenswatch is not bad, either. I'll wa...OK. Your Hitchenswatch is not bad, either. I'll watch you, too.Huib Riethofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377762382669163829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10992808.post-1148422330796658562006-05-24T00:12:00.000+02:002006-05-24T00:12:00.000+02:00Took the liberty of linking to your excellent essa...Took the liberty of linking to your excellent essay.<BR/><BR/>http://christopherhitchenswatch.blogspot.com/2006/05/at-home-in-europe-hitchens-has-been.htmlSonichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00701209395700307908noreply@blogger.com